Darren Rutherford

 Welcome back to another amazing episode of Keepin It Rio. Today, I’m excited to welcome my buddy Darren Rutherford to the podcast. A regular guy who loves dirt racing, he saw a need for something to provide info to the community and decided to create an app. Here’s the kicker. He has zero experience. Follow the journey from an idea to a live app that is literally being downloaded Worldwide and enjoy this fun episode of your favorite Podcast. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:01

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back once again. Favorite time of the week, the one that you look forward to the most. It's keeping it real time. And this today is episode 253 of the big show. And we're on our way to Joe Rogan's status here pretty soon. I think he sees us now in his mirror, and he's starting to get a little scared. So we're on the way to the top. And the way that we get to the top is by having amazing guests that have amazing stories. And I was just telling today's guests, we've had everybody on our show from you know NASCAR drivers to professional fighters, wrestlers, morticians, magicians, and everything in between, even hot sauce chefs. And one thing that I have not had, and I'm very, very um, I'm big on tech and I love tech. One thing I've never had as an app developer on my program until now. So, ladies and gentlemen, this is a pretty cool honor to me because I actually know this young man personally and have been friends with his family for like 30 years. I've known your wife since she was about three years old. So this is pretty cool for me. I love this, and it's an honor for me to welcome my friend Darren Rutherford to the show. Darren, welcome to the show, man. How's it going?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

It's going pretty good, man. I appreciate you for having me. This is awesome. My first podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:18

There you go. I'm always the first, and I always tell people, you're, you know, good luck finding a better episode after this one because you started with the best, and that's the way I love it. So absolutely. Let's let's rock and roll, my friend. I know, like I said, I've known your family for years and years and years, and know know a little bit about what's going on. But the millions and millions of viewers out there worldwide do not know yet. So let's tell him what's going on, man. Tell me a little bit about yourself to start this, and we'll roll with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Um, well, like you said, I'm Darren. Um, he's known my wife for a long time. They they talk about you all the time, Chuck. Uh they'll see you'll they'll see you make a status, and they'll be like, Oh, Chuck, I wonder how he's doing. I wish we could see Chuck. And so you're a great guy. That's that's that's the main thing, and that's the one thing I know. Um, so I have no background in at all with with developing anything. I I just learned how to code last year, and um I attempted college when I was 27, so about three to four years ago. And it was it was super hard to to try to juggle college and a full-time job. It was impossible. Um, so I just went back to work, working full-time, and then uh I had the uh an idea, I guess. Um I was tired of going to Facebook groups and uh having to join and waiting two weeks to join just to just see like racing updates or my buddy would send a message in a group chat and they would uh the post would say unavailable. So I would click it and join this race group to watch this video. And I was just tired of doing that. And so I was like, I'm just gonna develop an app where the whole racing community can come together and just just be one group instead of having multiple objects to jump over. So that's kind of the main reason I started it, and it was a challenge. I had no idea what I was doing. So thanks to like YouTube videos and uh asking AI questions, it really kind of helped out.

SPEAKER_04 3:07

I love that. So we'll we'll start off at the core, okay? And three weeks ago, I had the founder of my sponsor, roofer, Richie Nelson, on, and he was in a roofing company with his family since he was 12 years old. He had no background in tech, had never done anything like it. He's developed a platform that now has over 15,000 monthly users. So I have a real affinity for these kind of stories, and even more so. One thing about me, I'm a race fan, I've been a race fan for a long time, and I was that that's what drew me in immediately, you know. And I just happened to see this post the other day, and I think it was Shannon, your sister-in-law, yeah, who had shared your post about it, and I was like, Oh, dude, this is this is cool. So I want to learn a little bit more about how this all goes down. So obviously, you're a race fan. Tell me a little bit about your race fanhood. What drew you into being a dirt racing fan? Oh, other than the fact that you live in Zanesville, Ohio.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Right. I mean, that's pretty much it. I mean, living in southeastern Ohio, there's there's nothing, there's a bowling alley, one movie theater, and that's really it.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

So in a dirt track, yeah, in the dirt track.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

There's multiple dirt tracks within 40 miles of Zanesville, so it's perfect. And plus, Miskam County Speedway is right there in the dead center of between Dresden and Zanesville, I guess. So ever since I can't even remember, I think the last memory I have there, or the earliest memory, was when I was seven. I was at Muskane County Speedway, and it was my birthday. My mom went up and told them it was my birthday, and they announced it over the screen. But it's crazy being a kid and wanting to go to dirt track races because your attention span's like 100 miles an hour. You're not really interested in the racing, but like the atmosphere. So I remember mostly as a kid uh just being in the dirt with my friends or making new friends with cars and the making our own tracks. So, yeah, so it started there, and then uh the older you get, the more freedom you get. So I would go on the weekends with my buddies to watch races. We go Skyline or Tyler County, stuff like that. And so that's pretty much where it started, and then just uh it was addicting from there.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

Oh, dude, trust me, I know. My first race I went to was the 2001 Coca-Cola 600. Oh, wow. I went with your brother-in-law, my best friend, Ryan Russi, and our neighbor, and that was Charlotte 01 two weeks ago here in Austin at uh Circuit of the Americas was my 80th NASCAR race. So I totally know how you feel about this. And I lived in Columbus for the first 32 years of my life. We had Columbus Motor Speedway. There's actually behind me, you can't really see it because it's behind Brutus. There is a drone photo, it's the last known drone photo taken of Columbus Motor Speedway before they tore it down. Wow, and it was literally the day after the last event. I went over there and I took my drone and I got that one-of-a-kind photo. So I totally love racing, and I appreciate fans that are into it because I know we're kind of crazy, right? And these guys will tell you. I mean, I've been a pretty hardcore fan forever, and my favorite driver is Jeremy Mayfield. I went so far as to have him on my podcast, and have gone down there and and you know watched races in the pits and all that stuff. And once you get that bug, it it never leaves you, like you're just stuck with it. So I see where you're coming from with this, and it's like, all right, I agree with the same thing because back in the day there were modified races that I'd want to see the results on, and you got to go through like four or five different apps, you got to try to find it. This was before they had things like flow racing and all that stuff where you can watch it, and it kind of did suck. So, years ago, Darren, I was like, Man, I wish someone would come up with an idea to like bring all this stuff together and put these these local tracks and get us the results and everything that we might need. And sounds like great minds think alike. So you have now made this decision, this needs to be done. I have never done this before in my entire life, but we're about to dive in head first and see what happens. So, tell me a little bit about this initial phase of this app development. Like when I say initial, okay, you just had an idea. So, what do we do next?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yeah, so like I said, I had this idea. Um, and I was kind of just brainstorming like online, like how to create an app, how to how to code write. And uh it it learning took about a week of just Googling how to do stuff and then never really diving into it. So I was kind of like sticking my toes in and then like ah, it's too complicated. I don't want to do this, I'll leave it to somebody else. Maybe it'll become an app one day in the future. And but uh I just said screw it, I'm just I'm just gonna just give it a chance. And so I started doing it, and within I think the first week, I was able to create the whole main screen with uh from YouTube. And so like it had like the talking track logo and it had a feed, and uh, I was able to sign in, and I thought that was pretty great. Um, that was last year and I think August. I think I attempted that. So I was like, all right, I can keep doing this. I had nothing wrong, nothing was giving me problems. This was really simple, easy. So over the next like four months, I was just adding more features, adding more features, and then uh I was like, I should probably just like develop this out and get it out in the world. How do I do this? So then I started Googling that and trying to get it on the Google Play Store and the Apple store, and um, which cost some money to do apparently. I didn't know that at the beginning. So I asked my wife and I was like, hey, this this is my dream right now. I want to I want to accomplish this, and she had my back 100%. So she's like, I'll do whatever we need to do to get this going out. So she she gave me some of some of her money, I guess, to kind of get it on the Google store. Um, so we got it all coded out, put it on the Google store, which was last week, I think, was when I posted that status. And I was I felt so vulnerable doing that. I never want to reach out and ask people for help, but I had no other option to or a way to get it to people. So it made me feel a little bit better with all the nice comments, and that's the great thing about the racing community because they all just jumped at it.

SPEAKER_04 8:56

I most race fans are cool, you know. Like some of them are are not, but most of us are pretty darn cool. We like to help each other out, we like to support each other. That's why I reached out for this podcast for that very reason. Yeah, I was like, dude, I respect this because I'm redoing my company website right now. We just rebranded a couple weeks ago, right? And I've been working on it 16 hours a day for the last six days, and I still got like 10 different things to do. So this really hit home for me, and I was like, holy cow! Like to sit down and start from scratch is not something I can even fathom at this stage. So you get rolling with it, and you know, we just kind of jumped into the Google Play, but I need to know a little bit more about this development process as well. You you watch a couple videos, you get some AI kind of showing you what to do. Yep. What you know, what's the process as far as that goes? What kind of prompts are you putting into AI? What are you asking it to continue progressing with this development as you go? Because I know that's a whole, you know, you you end up in a giant hamster wheel when you start doing that. Right. Next thing you know, you've refined it 3,000 times and you haven't really accomplished much. So well, what's it like for you sitting down saying, All right, I'm putting all this stuff into a computer, I'm gonna make this happen, not gonna get distracted. Because if you're like me, we're race fans. Oh, yeah, and we never did fully grow up, and that mind is still going 100 miles an hour, so it's not the easiest thing in the world to do, and you don't have anybody helping you. So tell me about how that process works on top of being a family man and you know, having to take care of life on a regular basis as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Yeah, so working a full-time job too, and four kids, oh, it's been it's been it's been an adventure, but yeah, so Googling stuff, downloading programs to try and code on, and trying to find the right one that really helps me. And uh, I ended up finding one that was it's called GitHub. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that, and it has the AI co-pilot attached to it. So I would be typing my code in, putting prompts in, um, getting stuff ready for like the signing in and forgetting your username and password. And there's there was so much on this list that I had to figure out how to do. And I learned most of that just from asking the co-pilot on the right side, like, hey, I have this problem here, it's red, it's not functioning. What did I do wrong? So I would copy and paste my prompt, my five lines or 16 lines of code over to it, and it says, Oh, all you did was just put a backward slash or you had an extra period here. This is what it should look like. So I yep, that was easy. And a lot of my errors were just that problem. I would have an extra space or an ending bracket where it shouldn't have been. And so I don't know. I just kind of really picked it up learning from off YouTube off the YouTube videos. I can't think of any of the people who showed me. I wish I could, I wish I could call them out right now and give them thanks, but uh I can't think of nobody. But yeah, so watching them and then like practicing all my HTML HTML stuff really gave me the confidence to kind of just go on GitHub and just let's let's just get done. It's let's get to work. I love it.

SPEAKER_04 11:50

So yeah, you you you're putting it in, you're doing the time, you know. It's it's shut the door at night and work deep into the the darkness and and you know, solitude, and and really just thinking, okay, you know, all the work you're putting into this, and it's all leading up to March 8th, which was eight days ago when I saw the post. Yep, and this this goes live. So tell me a bit about that feeling. You just said, you know, it's vulnerability putting it out there saying, Hey, look, this is what I've been doing. I didn't even ask you this question yet, but I'd love to know this. Did anybody know what you were doing other than your family? Were you telling people, hey, I'm building an app, or was it like a hey, surprise, this is what I've been doing, and I'd like all your support.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Yeah, so working last year, it was towards the end of our season. So we get laid off in winter time, which I'm sure you're familiar with thing. Well, maybe, maybe where you're at, but not here, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

So we got laid off in the winter time. So right before we got laid off, we were in a hotel working up north, I think, towards like Cleveland somewhere. And uh, I was like, I'm gonna develop an app. I want to just I just want to get into it. And that was kind of my first idea. And I was telling my boss's son, actually, Walker, was in the same hotel room as me. He was like, Oh, that'd be so cool. And I was explaining like yik yak. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that. It's a call, it's a college app that's anonymous. Um, everyone's anonymous, but they go on there, you have to have a school email. So like mine would be Darren Rutherford at miskangum.edu. And you belong to that community now, you're at Miskangum automatically. And they just go in there and they just pretty much just talk shit, and they can because no one knows who they are.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

There you go. And I like I like that. I was like, oh, that's that's awesome. You get you know, you you get confident when no one knows who you are. So but on the like on Facebook posts, I see in racing groups like uh they're anonymous and they're like, Oh, in turn two, I got he didn't even list for me, and he put me in a wall. He's he's uh he's a fuckhead. I was like, what why would you why would you hide behind an anonymous name? Like grow grow up, dude. So I was kind of contradicting myself there, but I kind of grown, I understood that people are more comfortable hiding behind something that they can't find. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 13:54

Like they say, you know, I was watching Jeremy Mayfield's podcast this week. He did his first episode, and one of the questions that they pulled out was, you know, did you smoke meth before or after the episode? And his wife read that to him, and Jeremy's like, Look, dude, you're under the name anonymous or whatever. Like, that's not even original at this point. How many times have I heard this? You know that it's not even true, but like, why not say it is who you are? Why not just say, Look, my name is Billy. I live in Mooresville, North Carolina, and I think you smoke meth rather than doing the anonymous thing. And I agree, anonymous is cool if you're on the offensive, but if you're on the defensive, I think we should probably get rid of anonymous. Yes, which a lot of people would have a completely different attitude.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Oh, yeah. Well, it brings me to another thing with the app. Um, I tried to get on Google, which we'll get to that again. I had to add so much security and like terms of agreements and privacy and data stuff that I didn't even know you had to add into it because you're taking people's data technically, they got to sign up, so you're taking their emails, which the older generation probably thinks I'm just stealing their data, but uh it's it's very concerning for me at least, but I'm not so I had to add that. I had to uh make sure that I had to bleep out certain certain words. Uh racism's not allowed, and and sexism, and and you can't talk about certain stuff. And I didn't know none of that. I had to literally take a course, it was like a two-hour video I had to watch and take a test after just to just to understand it and put that into my app too. But yeah, I was it's crazy, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

And I mean, I I get it. Google's been a thorn in my side for a couple of years, and their security is second to none. I'll say that lovingly. Um, and and I get it. So there's a lot of different things that you've said so far, but the theme has kind of been the same. And it's like I didn't realize that this was gonna be a thing when I started, I didn't recognize that this was gonna be a thing. I didn't know that it was gonna cost this much. I didn't know that. So, at any point along this process, as you continue to move forward, you know, when you're building anything, you're building a company, you're building a life, you're building an app, whatever it is, there are definitely moments where you second guess your sanity and you're like, What the hell am I doing? Like, you know, really, this isn't my thing. I'm I'm doing it, but why? And did you ever have a moment, or I'm sure you had several, where you just thought, man, I'm I'm not gonna do this anymore. This isn't gonna work, it's not my thing. And if you did, what was the thing that that kind of drew you back in?

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Oh, so right as soon as I released the app, March 8th, you said, I'm sitting at my kitchen table. So I just got off work, I come home. Uh, my laptop's already set up. It's kind of been a routine here lately. Uh, I get home and my wife does everything. It seems like she takes care of the kids, feeds them, does her homework with them. As I'm sitting here at this computer, just struggling with trying to get this app launched, and she's been such a blessing. I love her to death. Um, but anyway, I'm trying to get this app working, and then she says she can't download it because she has an Apple phone. And I said, that's fine, it'll it'll launch to Apple soon enough. I'll figure that out when I get there. And uh, so I get it launched to Google, and she's like, Well, why don't we get this thing going to Apple now? Like, I want to download it and be able to look at it too. It's really cool. So I looked up how to do that, thinking I can just do it from my Windows computer. You can't. You have to buy a MacBook, and you have to buy more software, uh, X code or something. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I gotta buy a MacBook and just to do that. So I was like, I'm about just ready to just kind of just give up, let it just go away. And then she kind of talked me into just staying with it. So I stayed with it again. Um, and then I was coding, was it two days ago? No, it was last night. I was doing something and I accidentally highlighted everything on my my box and I cut it, and then I didn't realize it. I was on another page looking at my Vercell or my uh superbass, and then I copied something else. So I lost all my code, not thinking about it. And I exited out, didn't save it, so that was gone forever. It took me five hours to figure out. It was easy, easy fix afterwards, but I I was about to quit. I was ready to cry and just pull my hair out, but it was just another button on there. All I had to do was press and just roll back once, thank God. Which I probably would have knew that if I went to college for computer science or something, but come for me.

SPEAKER_04 18:03

Uh yeah, it wouldn't be as much fun that way. If you knew what you were doing, it wouldn't be as exciting, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:07

I agree, I agree. Yeah. So yeah, that was another chance. That was another time. Um, I'm I've had multiple times where I was just ready to throw in, but it wasn't for my wife, even my friends. So I just I back to that same subject we were talking about. I did tell my friends that I was making an app and they kind of just chuckled, like, yeah, right. Like maybe in the back of their minds they were like hoping, rooting for me, but they probably didn't see this being this far so far. Right. They all own it now, they all are making suggestions, which they're helping me out a lot, like reporting stuff, a report feature on there now. So if you see a bug, report it and I'll try to fix it. I have like 27 reports I gotta fix tonight to try and figure something out. So, but yeah, so they're everyone's everyone's super help, super helpful when it comes, especially the racing community, jumping in and trying to help.

SPEAKER_04 18:50

I love that. So this is this is really amazing. Okay, we've got a guy who's never done this before that's a huge fan, decides one day in a hotel room in Cleveland that he's gonna build an app, starts building the app, learns this thing, self-taught through the entire process, wants to give up multiple times, but is continuing to move forward. This is a very inspiring story. You get to the release date, everything's good. Even after the release date, you're still having these moments where you're thinking, Oh man, you know, what am I doing? What am I doing? But like you say, you start getting feedback from people, you start seeing that people are actually paying attention, you see that people are supporting what you're doing. I got the email the other day. I have an Apple phone too, so you do need to get that Apple developed pretty quick. But I um I joined and got the email and all that stuff, and I thought, hey, you know what? This is probably something that really is a monumental moment for you in this process, is when you start seeing these people that start signing up, start getting their their passwords and everything together. Tell me about the first subscriber that you saw that wasn't a family member or someone that maybe was like in your inner circle to where you thought, you know what, this is pretty awesome. Like I reached somebody in the community here, and now you know, my motivation's now super high because of it.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Oh, oh, yeah. So I I will never forget it was a woman named Tori, and she's from Australia. She actually downloaded the app um and instantly reached out to me within 15 minutes of me even posting that message. She said, Hey, I'm from Australia, and us aussies would love to see some dirt tracks from Australia in here. I'm not even thinking, I'm just trying to get, I was struggling just to get Ohio tracks. I ended up getting 958 tracks from around the United States, open and close, on this app, which took, I think, a month. Um, so I ended up Googling every track. I think I found 83 tracks in Australia. Who knew they had 83 tracks? I didn't. I love it. So I added them. I was pretty simple from learning to how to down or add all the nine other 900 tracks, whatever. So I added them within a couple hours, and I messaged her back and I said, Hey, thank you. I appreciate you so much for reaching out to me. I went ahead and added 83 tracks, just refresh your page, they should pop up. Any more questions? You know, come back to me. And then the next person, he was an older gentleman. He actually made the first post on there, which I accidentally deleted, but he made the first post, and so he reached out to me saying it would be super cool to see like certain track schedules if I go to a certain track and they had their schedule on there. I would be perfect, so much easier for people. So that was the hardest task I think I've ever accomplished in my life because AI, I thought I could just use AI for that. I said, asked a bunch of AI.

SPEAKER_04 21:31

Hey a lot of them don't even have the schedules out yet.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

No, no. So I was able to get like all the ones off flow, um, dirt on dirt, like the World of Outall series and like Legal Soul series, those were pretty easy. I can just go to one website and do that. So then I started with just Ohio, the tracks that I first hand knew. And I think I was only able to get like 567 tracks, and that's not even their full schedules. It was a it's a task that I definitely regret attempting, but it's so hard with just one person to accomplish. Accomplish it, but I'm not giving up. I'm gonna try to do it. I just know that every year from here on out, if this app goes does what I expect it to and hope it to, every year I'm gonna have to add new schedules for all these tracks.

SPEAKER_04 22:13

And that's the cost of growth, my man. And I'll tell you what, here's here's the goal: this thing just takes off like hotcakes, and you get super rich, and you hire a bunch of developers to do it for you. Yes, and next year you just look at it and say, That's my baby, and I'm sending her off to school, and I'm letting someone else deal with all that drama. But at the end of the day, you know that that's always going to be your thing, and you built that from infancy all the way up to the first steps, and into you know, you're you're in preschool right now with it, basically, and you're learning as you go and getting some of this positive feedback from people. I think that's amazing. Australia is the first subscriber, right? That is so cool because now you realize, dude, this is this is not gonna just be a local short track app. It it was predetermined at that very moment that you've now got a worldwide phenomenon, you've got to add tracks from all over the world. This is a process that takes a lot of time, and I want to learn a little bit about this process, okay? Yeah, racetracks galore worldwide, multiple divisions, multiple schedules, multiple everything, you know, racing on every night of the week, and so on and so forth. Tell me a little bit about how you go about getting this information on the tracks, each individual scoring, each individual whatever you've got going on, and getting it into the app so it becomes functional. That's not like a copy paste type thing, I wouldn't think. So what uh what do you have to do in order to get you know thousands of these things on the app?

SPEAKER_01 23:43

So I think when I added the the track features, I think I was at like 6,000 lines of code, which turns out I didn't need that much, but we'll get into that later, I think. And uh so I was just kind of figuring out where to place this, and I I was able to get uh three days of researching, I got 900 tracks, and then I asked AI, I said, Can you tell me if all these tracks are open or closed? And AI would not figure it out. They said that's it's too many, too many tracks to look into. You're pretty much on your own. So I did that. So I just split them up. So I went by state. So I started with Ohio and then I went with the surrounding states, and then I went in alphabetical order and I found some that are closed, some that are open, and I just said I'm just gonna add them anyway. It'd be cool to have this feature because I knew I was gonna add like a location feature soon, which I did. I added that three days ago where you can see the tracks within 100 miles, 200 miles, 300 miles, 500 miles of you, which I thought was really cool. But so adding these in was also a struggle. Um, trying to figure out where to put this in my code. So I finally got the code written out and it worked. I could see it on my my separate monitor. Like I could have the app loaded up on my other monitor. It wasn't live yet, but I could see what I was doing, so that was helpful. So I'd be adding all these tracks and then it would load in, it would crash sometimes because it was a lot of code at once, and then finally I got it on there. I could see it, but it was right dead in the middle of the screen. So I had to like margin over to the left, margin over to the right, and then crunch it up, and I didn't like it at all. So I just pretty much scratched that idea, went ahead and just went. I'm just gonna add classes right now. So I added like just the main classes, late models, uh modified, and then I went to like like compact cars, and I was like, it'd be cool to add like a kid class in here too. So I want to add like the cart classes, and I was like, let's add four cylinders and like Econo class. And I was like, I let's just add everything, everything I think of that goes on. Why not?

SPEAKER_04 25:26

At this point, yeah, those are the best racing uh of the show, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yeah, so I was like, uh what 72 classes, I think is what it was. So I added that, and I liked where it was at. And I was like, Oh, it'd be cool just to add the track feature right above it, let you select what select what track you want. Um, you can make a community if you want to. Well, let's add that. So within four days, I had the the classes set up and all the tracks before I had the scheduling figured out, which I still kind of regret doing that. But once once those were all set up, I felt accomplished and I felt good, and I just I wanted to keep adding more. It just made me hungry for more. It was cool seeing it up there, it was cool seeing people interact because more posts started coming up that I think the day after I added that feature, and they were actually tagging tracks like, Hey, who's from this area? This is this is my ride, and people were posting pictures of their cars. I was like, Oh, this is this is so cool. I'm so glad people are interacting with this, and it wasn't a waste of time.

SPEAKER_04 26:18

That's that's amazing, and you know, like say race fans, we're here to support. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna tag the local track and say, Hey, what's going on? So you've done all this, you've you've gotten to the point where this is loaded with features. Like, yeah, there are no other racing apps like this, and you're ready to hit the market, you're ready to to take it, you know, worldwide, you're already in Australia. So now you've got this release, you're starting to get positive feedback, you're still now realizing uh-oh, I think this is where the real work actually begins. I think the development's gonna turn out to be the fun part of the story, and then you're gonna have that, you know, the happy ending down the road. But I think you're in the trenches right now, and I think it's gonna be a deal where you're gonna spend a lot of time refining and working on the things that people are requesting, and you're gonna think to yourself, Man, I wish that there I wish this many people didn't know about this right now, but it's a huge blessing. So the ultimate question I have is number one, what's the goal? You know, is this something you're gonna continue on for life? Is it something that you're gonna, you know, eventually maybe expand into other things now that you've got yourself a little bit of a background as a web developer and an app developer? Is it something you'd ever consider doing again in a different form?

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Yeah, so it I think it's super fun and it seems rewarding, just I don't know, uh a dopamine boost, I guess you get um once you see it finally work out. But it was definitely it was troublesome with when a lot of people started to join in because my buddies are on the app too and they like to just be smart asses. Yeah. Yeah. So my one buddy races a late model, and they'll get on that the local track and be like, that 55 can't can't drive a nail and then comment on there just trying to start trouble, which they can. I can see all who they are. I don't think I should announce who they are to each other, but because they're anonymous. But I I it's funny.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

Where's your next app? It's racing, right? You know, we we unleash people's information on that and then we go record them fight.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Absolutely, absolutely. So uh, so I had to add a like a trash can feature where you can delete your comments if you don't feel safe with them or anything like that or delete your things. I never had that. Um, so and then I added that up the bumping up and bumping down. If you like a post, I made it to where if a if a post gets uh five down votes, it's automatically deleted out of there because people were complaining, um, mostly about my buddies being on there being smart asses.

SPEAKER_04 28:46

Um you gotta love friends. Oh, yeah, you know, without knowing who they are, you're just like, damn it, that's Johnny, man. Oh, yeah. He's an asshole to all these random strangers, but that's my boy, and yeah, I can't really boot him because you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Well, they've been around the racing scene too. Most of them are all racers themselves. Uh, so they've been up, they've been growing up with me doing the same thing on the tracks of their grandpa. And I got when Pinsboro was open, I had a buddy who was showing me a uh a photo album of his grandpa, and there was like old photography photos of uh of old cars. It was just super cool. And he ended up passing away, and that's how we ended up seeing all that, but it was super, super cool to see that um off topic a little bit. But uh, so yeah, so I think I want to just stay doing this app for as long as I can. I think my wife and I were laying in bed the other night, and uh, I was on Facebook scrolling, and I saw a post that said uh Instagram sold their company with 13 employees for one billion dollars. And I was just like reading, I was like, wow, that is 13 employees is not a lot, especially compared to just one employee doing this. And it's if I can just figure out how to get money to pay employees to help me keep this thing going, it would be I think it would be super successful. So that's kind of like the long-term goal is just to be super successful and super helpful to um the racing community.

SPEAKER_04 30:06

I love that. So this begs the next question. You got the dirt tracks on lockdown. I'm an asphalt fan myself. I love going and watching late models, I love watching modified, I love watching street stocks. I had eye racing and I was certified as an addict. And you know, I used to always race against people in Australia, ironically. Right. When you're up at three o'clock in the morning running a Daytona truck race, that's all that's up is people in Australia. So I I've raced with a lot of uh people over there, but it begs the question okay, you figured out this pretty well with the dirt track, you've got this pretty much, you know, moving in the right direction. There's still going to be a lot of refining as you go. But any thoughts about expanding into other forms of motorsport, other types of racing, asphalt, or you know, yeah, off-road, anything like that, motorcycles, anything else like that you'd like to put into the app?

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Um, maybe not motorcycles, but it's the you know, the the future is untelling, I guess. So someone reached out to me with a report and it said, I would love to see NASCAR on here, which I thought was weird because you can just watch NASCAR on cable, on basic cable, and you can just go on NASCAR and NASCAR is its own thing. Obviously, Jordan, Michael Jordan sued him for monopolizing or whatever. Anyway, he did great. Yeah, I agree. Um, so I was like, I'm not gonna add NASCAR, but like local asphalt tracks, like the watching the late models on asphalt are super cool. Um, so that's definitely something I want to venture into once I like get this dirt track thing to a T and understand it. I want to definitely expand into the asphalt circle track of the world. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 31:36

I love that, and I think that's a natural progression. And you know, make sure it's perfect, make sure you've got everything lined out on this side of it. And the cool thing of it is it's a work in progress every single day, every single step of the way, you're gonna learn something new, and you're gonna say, Oh, you know, I wish I would have known that when I started, I wish I would have known that last week. I wish I didn't know that at all. And you know, as it continues to grow and develop, it's gonna take off. And I believe 100% that the racing community does need something like this that that you know, I'm from Columbus. Like I said, I go to Columbus Motor Speedway when I moved to Charlotte. I would still go check the results of Columbus Motor Speedway every single Sunday morning. I'd go and just be like, you know, my buddy's cousin was running down there. Or I knew a guy that worked with me at the roofing supply company that was a crew chief. And it's like, you know, I'm in Charlotte and I'm seeing the results at at Columbus. And I I thought, this is pretty darn cool. And then they got rid of Columbus Motor Speedway. So I don't know if that app's still in existence or not, but it was awesome to see that and to have real, you know, real-time results and stuff like that. And that is the next thing that I want to ask about as far as features on the app. Is that something that you've got available? Is that something that that technologically is even possible to do? Is to have you know statistics like that in real time or relative real time.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

So that's something I definitely want to get into. I want every track to have the past race results, results of like last night, like who won last night. I would love to implement that. I don't know if it's possible, but from right now, from what I'm seeing, I'm pretty much proving the impossible, at least to myself, of what I've already accomplished. So that's something I would love to have. I don't know if I need to have one person for each track, being like an admin or a moderator, automatically update it. I don't know if AI in the future will have uh functions or uh what's I don't know what the word I'm looking for is uh just uh something I can implement into my app to automatically do it. I think AI is probably the craziest tool so far we have it's so futuristic, but it's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 33:40

I rebranded my entire roofing company with Chat GPT, and it's so crazy. I wrote all the SOPs for my entire organization, all of the breakdowns of everybody's responsibilities, our sales process. I write our contracts individually because I do digital, I write an individual scope of work with it every single one. And it's like, write this down and make sure I don't get sued. Write this down and make sure everything I'm supposed to have in here legally is in here, and it's like, all right, bro, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and you take care of it. And I can't help but but wonder, you know, I'm from the old school, and it's like I grew up in a time we didn't even have the internet, right? And then we got the you know, we got dial up and whatnot, and we got all this stuff, and then we had cell phones that you could flip, and I remember how badass it was when I got a phone that you could text with, and I realized that was only like 20 some years ago, that was not like a long time ago, and now we've got this AI that's hit the scene basically since COVID, about five years, and look at what it's already got, it's capable of rebranding businesses and and writing books and creating apps and all that. So I have a strong feeling that five years from now, dude, you can tell that thing to go make you dinner and it's gonna somehow find a way to make it happen.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

So absolutely I find myself googling with it. Like, I won't even use Google no more. I'll just pull it out, click the app, and ask the question like, Am I sick? Do I have COVID or something like that? Here's my symptoms, and it'll just instantly pop it up. I don't know if it's good or not to be doing that, but I mean if it gives you the answer you're looking for, then it works, right?

SPEAKER_04 35:09

That's the way I look at it. If you tell me I'm not gonna die right now, then we're good.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Yeah, I think if you use it as a tool, it's it's it's a great, it's a great thing to have with you, I think. It's definitely I love it.

SPEAKER_04 35:19

So let's let's dive into the future a little bit now. Okay. We've we've heard the inspirational story of a young man that had a dream and not not just had one, but he actually took action on it, yeah, put it in, got this thing to where it's actually live now. You've got people all over the world subscribing, looking to help you out. We just talked a little bit about expanding into other forms of motorsport, into other things down the road. So let's put a time frame on this. What do you see, you know, one year, five years, 10 years down the road with this app, with your future in potential technology development? Is this something that you're gonna you know scrap the other career and just go full, you know, here's what I am? Or is it gonna maintain itself as a hopefully soon well-paying side gig, hustle, hobby, whatever you want to call it? I don't know, definitely not a hobby. Right. Hobbies are things that you have fun doing. You get into something like this, and it's like shit, this isn't fun, but now I can't do it. So what's it look like moving forward for you? What are your ultimate hopes as far as you know, a year from now, how many people would you like to see subscribed?

SPEAKER_01 36:25

At least I would like to see at least 3,000 people because right now right now I think I only have a couple hundred. I think. I think once the the app goes live and it's just not a beta no more, which it's still an alpha. Not everybody can download the app, but you can go on the internet browser and still use the app as a functionality platform still. But I think people want it to be on the Play Stores and Apple Apple stores just to be able to have it in the palm of their hands, which I understand, I get that, and that that's something I'm looking forward to. Um, if I can definitely put or add like monetization and get money from doing this in the future, if I make enough, yeah, absolutely. I would love to just uh quit my full-time job and focus on this primarily and just see how big it gets. Um, I don't think it'll ever get as big as Facebook because the racing community has maybe maybe three million racing, but percentage-wise, it's just not not as big a number.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

But if you get every race fan in the world to download your app, I can assure you you're doing pretty damn good.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Yeah, I just don't want the dirt track racing community to die. I've heard from multiple sources that it's a dying, it's a dying sport. Uh dirt racing is not like what it used to be. Tracks are closing down, and I just I would love to see it just rise up. My my son, Diesel, you know Diesel. Absolutely. I started taking him about five, six years ago, and he wants to go every weekend, which I think in the summertime we do. We go twice a twice a week to dirt tracks, and he just loves to go there. And even if he's just playing in the dirt, he's having fun, and he talks about it with his friends. And I love it so much. I just hope it never dies and just always grows.

SPEAKER_04 37:56

Yeah, that's my biggest thing, too. I I'm a huge local racing fan, and I'm a huge fan. I was a NASCAR fan for 20 years, and we went to all those races. And you can ask Ryan anytime. Some of the stories we have about some of the places we've gone to to watch NASCAR has been insane. But I went to a lot of other series, I've been to a lot of ARCA races, I've been to a lot of tracks that were not in NASCAR. I went to North Wilkesboro like in 2017 before they re- you know, resurrected it and brought it back to life. And it was crazy because I was just driving by the track and I rolled into the parking lot. I got out and I saw this house off into the distance. And I don't know what the hell motivated me to do this on this Sunday morning, but I walked over to this dude's house and I knocked on the door, and I was just gonna ask if I could get a couple pictures of the track. I didn't want the guy to shoot me, and it's like, hey man, I'm a race fan, I'm coming through. I just want to see if I could get some some, you know, a couple shots. This guy's name was Paul Call. And if you go back in history and look at this guy, he had been a groundskeeper at North Wilkesboro Speedway since the very early days, like the 50s. And this dude, when they shut it down in 1996 and they sold it to SMI, which is the company that buys all the racetracks and shuts them down so they can move them to Texas or you know, whatever, they had to write into the contract. The family that sold the track to them wrote into the contract that this guy would be the groundskeeper of that facility for life until the day that he died, and they would pay him, you know, through that course. So this guy was there for 30 years or whatever while this thing was completely abandoned, but he lived there and he believed in his heart, and you could clearly see this that it was gonna come back someday. And it's like, man, you know, whatever. I went there, it was cool. I actually went to a race there. They they resurrected it, and Shane Meal, before he had his accident that that paralyzed him, it was the week before he raced in a modified race at North Wilkesboro, and like Chase Elliott was racing there, he was like 12 years old at the time or something, and like it was it was a really cool thing. And I got to go back, and this guy took me on a private tour in Darren, he's walking me through these buildings, and it's like there's history galore as a race fan. I'm like, shit in my pants. I'm like, oh my god, dude, like this is Junior Johnson's like original car, and it's there, and junior Johnson's from there, so he's like right down the street, right? And this guy, Paul, is like, I'm gonna live until North Wilkesboro Speedway comes back, and Dale Earnhardt Jr., who I never liked as a driver, but as an ambassador to racing, is probably the biggest biggest guy that there is, and I'm a huge fan. He got North Wilkesboro on iRacing, which kind of led to hey, you know, we had to clean it up and do all that for iRacing. It looks pretty awesome now. What if you know they bring it back for the all-star race? I think North Wilkesboro has a points race this year, if I'm not mistaken. And so I got to do this entire walkthrough with the guy, and I thought to myself, man, how many tracks like this have so much meaning to people, and you never really get to know? You move away and you want to follow up and say, you know, my local dirt track. I want to see what's going on at Muskingum County Speedway from my new home in Tampa. So you're definitely feeling a need for people. And to kind of bookend that story, Paul Call he died like three months after they got back and ran that all-star race for the first time. So this dude literally lived through that entire era where nobody was there, nobody stopped by. It was just him and his dog and this racetrack. And he said, It's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. The dude got to live to see it happen before he passed away. So that's magic. That had nothing to do with dirt tracks or apps, but I thought that was a cool story for a race.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

That's another thing. I added all these closed tracks in like around the United States in hopes that maybe they'll you know they'll revamp and open back up. It's like Mansflow Speedway. Uh oh, yeah. Uh uh, Matt Tiff. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Matt Tiff.

SPEAKER_04 41:58

I've been watching his his whole thing on YouTube as he bought it and he's going through the deal, and it's like that's a lot of work.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Yeah, I met him at our a hilltop speedway out past uh Kashockton. He came there, raced the late model, and uh, we were talking to him for a while, and then uh I saw that he bought that and I was sharing it to all my friends. Like, we met this guy, this is crazy. He raced NASCAR and now he's buying Mansfield Speedway. So I've been following his journey and his story too. It's very inspiring too. Um, so yeah, so he bought Mansfield and he got that back going. So now that the actually the I had it closed on my app because I forgot that he even opened it back up, so I pressed back open, but um and hoping that there's always like a North Wilkesboro story and with all these old tracks.

SPEAKER_04 42:38

Yeah, I mean, there's so many of them right now. I've been uh reading a lot about how asphalt racing, I think, is getting ready to change a little. There's a an uh sanctioning body that does drag racing, IHRA, and they started a stock car division. And I heard the other day that they're going around buying tracks like Rockingham and they're buying all these closed tracks, they're gonna redo them and and reopen them. And to me, that's awesome because that's where NASCAR went wrong when they left places like Rockingham and North Wilkesboro, and I was down there in Charlotte, I lived there for several years. That is like that's racing country, dude. And absolutely it you burn those people, and then it's like, you know, why are the stands half full? I remember the last time I went to Bristol was with Ryan, and it was actually Facebook memory, it was like 12 years ago today. We were in Bristol, and little known fact, we drove all the way to Bristol, we went to the bush race, and it sucked so bad that we left before the cup race even started. Wow, and we were on our way home when we were supposed to be sitting in the Bristol, and that's Bristol, like right. You know, something's wrong, they need to fix racing. And I think that it's up to us, the fans, to make it happen. And I think you're doing something really amazing by bringing this to the people. I do think it's gonna continue to grow. And the next question I have for you, my friend, anybody that's watching this, we've got dirt fans, I've got roofers, I got people from all over the world, I've got Australians on here.

SPEAKER_02 43:59

Nice and

SPEAKER_04 44:00

We got people that are going to want to subscribe and are going to want to help you just based on your journey and your story, but they also want to get the best racing info. What are you looking at as far as time frame for getting it available on all platforms? And then what do people need to do to find the app and to subscribe and continue to help this young man push his dream forward?

SPEAKER_01 44:20

So I think with all platforms, I would say beginning of June is the latest, I would imagine it would be on all platforms. Um it's already on Google Play for the closed beta, which you need a private and invite link for that. Um you can go to the website, it's uh talkingtrack.live. Um, I tried to buy.com, it was already taken, couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_04 44:41

Uh I know that's why my roofing company is.NET. Yes, someone bought my dot com when I shut the dot net or dot com down for a minute. And he wants a stupid amount of money that he wouldn't let me give him.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

So which I'm I'm fine with dot live. Um, it'll be on apps anyway, hopefully within by the beginning of uh June. Um, so yeah. So if you want to uh support me and help me out, just just download the app. If you find any bugs or you want to see some stuff be added to it, you can uh email me. Um it's all on the site. You can put a ticket in, report something. Um, just be super helpful and just let me know what you want to want to see.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

I love that. That is so amazing, man. And I I look forward to watching this journey as it progresses. Like you know, we're friends for a long time and family friend and all that stuff for years, and it's cool to see this. And I am definitely rooting for you, my friend. I hope that somebody watches this episode. I always joke and tell people millions and millions of people are gonna watch keeping it real. Unfortunately, it's gonna be like 300 years from now, we'll all be gone. But 300 years from now, your great grandkids, great-grandkids could still be uh, you know, racking up some money from the app. And hopefully it becomes a generational thing for you because you deserve it, man. You put in all the hard work behind the scenes and put every bit of your heart and soul into something, and then you put it out into the public. There's nothing better than seeing it take off. So, yeah, definitely wishing you the best on that. I gotta do one thing real quick, and that is give a shout-out to my sponsors. And Darren, let me tell you a little bit about my sponsors at roofer.com. They are the best sponsors in the world. Number one, I've had them as a sponsor here. I'm keeping it real for the last four years. And what Roofer is, it's a program. Imagine this. These kids were Roofers at 12 years old, Richie and Nick. And as they continue to grow through the business and learn more about it, they saw some holes in the game. And Richie put everything he had on the table, sold his house, went all in on this app called Roofer, and it started off as basically just a free measurement tool to get into Roofer's hands. And from that point, seven years ago, it has now developed into a full CRM. We do everything within this the program. Um, I order all my materials, I do all my work orders, I reach out to my clients, I do instant estimates, proposals, collect payments, and then follow up after the fact. And this all came from an idea from from lifelong Roofers. Like I said, it's inspiring to me, and I love your story because it's very similar to that. Absolutely. And I see the success that they had. You're talking 3,000. These guys have 15,000 users right now, and it's continuing to grow as we speak. So, shout out to my friends at Roofer. If you're in the industry and you don't use Roofer, I've been saying for like 200 episodes in a row now. Use Roofer. If you're not, something's wrong. Use Roofer, guys. Before we end, I'd like to tell a story, but I do want to give you a couple seconds here. Anything you'd like to add as a final thought? This is kind of like my Jerry Springer final thought uh segment of the podcast. And then I'm gonna end this with a story that I think you'll appreciate. But uh, what's what you know, what's some final words of wisdom to the to the millions and millions of keeping it real fans?

SPEAKER_01 47:47

Uh words of wisdom. Um, I've given up on a lot of dreams. Like, I I I've attempted stuff and just said this isn't for me and just quit. And there's always the you know, what if that took off? And this is really it. Like, what if this really takes off? And I'm I'm kind of seeing the what if if you just keep motivated and you give up, take go take a break for a minute, go go watch TV for something, go hang out with your kids, uh, go to work, think about it, just take a day off and then get back to it. Don't don't give up with what you're wanting to accomplish. And it's really showing for me at least, it's showing greatness. Uh, I really do appreciate.

SPEAKER_04 48:21

Absolutely, my friend. Stick to it, you're gonna win because most people have already given up at this stage. So you've already done more than the majority of the population. And I would like to end this with a personal story. I think you'll get a chuckle out of this because it's kind of funny, in my opinion. But we started the episode by me mentioning I've known your family, your wife, Kelly, since I think she was probably three or four years old. And I remember all the times I would go down to Zanesville, and you know, your in-laws, Mike and Vicky, always treated me like I was part of the family, and I love them dearly with all my heart. So, back in about I'm gonna say it's probably 98 or 99, we were down in Zanesville for the annual uh it was the Allen family wiener roast. And I think this is still a thing, maybe. Yeah, and I'm down there, we're having a good time, we're you know, doing our deal, we're talking. And your mother-in-law, Vicky Allen, she is a sweetheart. I love her to death.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

Yes, very much.

SPEAKER_04 49:20

She was a huge fan of this country singer, Neil McCoy, back in the day, and maybe she still is. I don't know. Maybe you still got Neil McCoy rocking through the walls, you know, when you walk in, but she was a huge fan, and Neil McCoy was gonna be playing at some venue down here in Columbus. So there was this great idea, like, okay, Neil McCoy in 1997-98. I'm just gonna be honest with you, I think we overestimated his popularity, right? We decided that we were gonna have to sleep in the cars overnight because there's gonna be like these millions of people in the big bear parking lot, which big bear to those that are not familiar, it was a grocery store based in in Ohio there. It's no longer with us, but that we were in the big bear parking lot on Stringtown Road in Columbus, and it is freezing cold there, and it's probably in like I would guess December, January, somewhere where in Columbus it's like right, you know, frigid. And I'm there with your brother-in-law, Ryan, and we're in this little Ford escort that he has. Well, in the other vehicle at this time, Mike had a it was a Chevy S10, yeah, and it was like a standard cab, it was like a gray Chevy S10, and it was the single cab, and it was him, your mother-in-law Vicky, and one of her friends. And so there's three of them that are spending the night in this truck. Me and Ryan are sleeping in this other car, and mind you, this whole time, there's not another Neil McCoy fan to be seen. So we're kind of figuring, all right, this is gonna be an adventure that I can talk about 30 years later on a podcast, probably. Here we go. We start freezing out in the in the parking lot. Ryan and I get the idea. Man, we're gonna go inside the store and just kind of walk around for a bit, kill some time, you know, like get some feeling back in our extremities. And we're in there for a little while, just kind of hanging out, whatnot. I look at it now in retro, and and I think, well, they probably thought we were in there trying to steal stuff. We were just literally like living in the parking lot for one night, and we go through the process, everything's good. We buy some snacks, whatever. We're gonna go back to the car and we're gonna gut it out. And mind you, the whole time I'm like, I'm in total bitch mode. I'm like, oh dude, it's too cold, and I don't know. You know, how do you like Neil McCoy? What are we doing? Uh so we get back to the car, get back in, everything's cool. Everybody, you know, Ryan and I were still chilling, having fun, and all of a sudden a conversation comes up, and I'm like, Man, we're in this car where the seats can go back. Like, Mike and those two are over in this truck, and like they they literally have to sit like upward to sleep because what are you gonna do? You know, you can't lay down. So I'm like, Man, I feel sorry for Mike right now. Like, I know he's over there, and he's probably feeling kind of the same way about it. Like, I'm here, you know, this is cool, but at the same time, if I weren't here, you know, I wouldn't be too broken up. So I'm like, man, you know, I feel bad for Mike. He's over there. It's like he's kind of got it worse than we do. Well, unbeknownst to me, when we were in the store, Mike got out of the truck, got into Ryan's car, and he's in the back seat, and I had no idea, right? So I'm like, dude, this poor guy, like, oh man, this is this is really we're gonna enjoy this Neil McCoy, damn it. Because, like, we're all going through this, and we're all we're happy to be there, but then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Mike's like, don't feel bad for me, and it scared the shit out of me, Darren. And I was like, you know what? After that, I made the decision, we're gonna call it a day. Ryan and I left. I don't know if they got the tickets to the Neil McCoy. I hope they did. I hope it was an amazing show. But that was one of the funniest moments of all time, and I wanted to share that story. I feel like you're one person that can really appreciate that because you know that was that was a microcosm of the the late 90s and the fun that we had. So huge affinity for everybody in your family. They're like family to me, and I I can't say enough about how much I love those guys. And uh, I appreciate you taking the time to be here, my friend. This has been really a lot of fun. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna put this out. Uh, this will be this week's episode. I'll put it out on Thursday, and we're gonna try to get 3,000 subscribers this first year, ladies and gentlemen. So I'm gonna cut some reels, I'll put it out and see what we can't do to make that happen. So, Darren, here's the deal: we're gonna do another podcast in one year, and you're gonna tell me I have 30,000 subscribers. So, no pressure on your end, buddy, but we need you to get 30,000 so it can be an inspirational story. And uh, we're gonna get it done. So, dude, I appreciate you. Stick around after I uh end this so everything finishes recording and and uh saving, ladies and gentlemen. Episode 253 has been a banger, as they say. I appreciate our guests. This is something that I was very interested in, and I leave here clamoring for more. Hopefully, y'all are as well. So remember what you need to do until next week, ladies and gentlemen. Corniest tagline in the podcast world is keep on keeping it real. We'll see you guys next Thursday. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

We're Roofer. We know that managing a roofing business can be chaotic. So we created a single platform with all the tools you need to easily run your roofing business. Stop switching between multiple different softwares and experience streamlined operations from lead to payments in hours instead of days. Visit roofar.com to get started for free today.